The Green Screen

Reuters Tackles Israel Over Death In Gaza
Dominic Waghorn, Middle East correspondent
Updated:10:57, Friday May 23, 2008

The Reuters news agency says it is having to restrict its operations in Gaza until the Israeli military explains why it killed one of its cameramen there.

Five weeks on from the death of Palestinian cameraman Fadel Shana, Israel has yet to announce the findings of its investigation into the incident - which also killed eight civilians, most of them teenagers or children.

Shana was filming Israeli tanks on a ridge a mile away, when one of them opened fire with at least one anti-personnel shell.

He captured his own final moments on film as the shell flew towards him - the last frames he filmed show the picture flicker to black and moments later the sound is heard of his body and tripod falling to the ground.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,3...65,00.html

Shana's last moments of filming are here:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_u...HOhlUdcgqo

I suppose AK would think this guy was just as lily-livered as he reckons I am.

Prospero Wrote:I suppose AK would think this guy was just as lily-livered as he reckons I am.

Anyone who goes into a war zone for any reason knows the risk. I personallly do not think photographers should be there. The people who have to be there wind up having to baby-sit them which takes away from their work.

I see you wimps over there couldn't wait for me to get banned, but yet you keep talking about me.
I see two other people over there now has you pegged, as I have, for a long time.

I also find it ironic that some of the biggest vocalist for having my banned have pretty much quit posting over there since I left. Kinda makes ya wonder why they were there to begin with.

AK

Here is a direct quote from Reuters' own website.
http://blogs.reuters.com/photo/2008/04/1...d-in-gaza/

"An Israeli military spokeswoman, Major Avital Leibovich, said there had been clashes there throughout the day after the three Israeli troops had been killed overnight in the same area."

It obviously was not a smart idea to point a large black object (his camera) at a dug in tank that was expecting enemy fire at any moment.  At a range of several hundred meters, that camera and tripod would look a lot like an anti-armour missle.

Don't want to get shot?  Stay out of a war zone, and if you do choose to go there, don't point unknown objects at skittish soldiers who had just finished cleaning up their 3 dead comrades.

Just a couple of pics to demonstrate how it would be possible to mistake a cameraman and his gear for a soldier with his anti armour missile, in this case, an Israeli SPIKE anti-tank missile. At a range of several hundred meters, and in the "fog of war", I challenge anyone to distinguish a frontal view of this system with a large video camera.

A frontal quartering view of the unit. Note how the imaging infrared seeker head lens looks just like a camera lens.


A rear quartering view after the missile has cleared the launcher tube. The missile is of the "fire and forget" type, meaning once a target lock is established, the missile will guide itself to the target leaving the missile crew free to leave the area. The SPIKE is also capable of using a fiber optic link to allow the gunner to make corrections to the missile's path while in flight.

Filming wars is dangerous business. Too bad about the Camera man, bet he didnt think he was going to the Bahamas when he boarded the plane.

Ain't that the truth? In my opinion it is Reuters that should be answering questions, and not the IDF. The tank crew not only did nothing wrong, they did was expected of them. The tank commander not only is responsible for his tank and his position in the line, he is also responsible for the lives of the rest of his crew. What if he held his fire and the camera turned out to be a missile fire control unit? How many people would be crying about that? Only the crew's family evidently.

Israel has a bad habit of shooting cameramen or UN outposts or ships when they get the urge. Sloppy target ID for what is supposed to be a competent military.

To be fair, Israel has caused the death of more than a few more Journalists. Its not like they accidentally bombed the headquarters of Aljazeera in 2 seperate cities but an Arab journalist has to be carefull around the IDF.

All journalists must be wary of war. They willingly enter areas where no civilian with any brains would go. Remember that they are placing themselves into a combat situation. The soldiers they are photographing are not boy scouts at summer camp. They are combat troops in an active war zone. Shit happens in places such as that, and I make no apologies for what happens to those that insist on being in places where they have no business.

If I was a journalist, I would rather be in range of the IDF before Hezbolla or Al-Qaeda. At least the IDF attempts to minimize civilian casualties, unlike the afore mentioned terrorists.

A pal of mine did the official investigation for the BBC when the IDF offed the driver of a BBC reporter who was reporting from southern Lebanon. There had been Hezbollah "technicals" in the area but I guess IDF tank optics couldn't tell the difference between them and an Audi sedan . . . . .

Don't get me wrong I have a strong regard for Israel's right to exist but how many reporters, UN outposts and US Navy ships has Hezbollah wacked ?

gray Wrote:A pal of mine did the official investigation for the BBC when the IDF offed the driver of a BBC reporter who was reporting from southern Lebanon. There had been Hezbollah "technicals" in the area but I guess IDF tank optics couldn't tell the difference between them and an Audi sedan . . . . .

Don't get me wrong I have a strong regard for Israel's right to exist but how many reporters, UN outposts and US Navy ships has Hezbollah wacked ?

I too have a strong regard for Israel's existence, more so than most on this forum is seems. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, while the IDF is a national army There is a difference.

The imaging on the tank would show people clustered around an unknown object mounted on a tripod. Seems similar to the first picture I posted except in the grey shade "colour" common to IR. Have you ever seen an IR image? I have, and it looks just like a black and white TV program minus the white. Yes, you can see objects, but you can't see detail as most would describe it. It is NOT like a 1 million power set of binoculars, as some of you think it is. It detects heat and not light.

As for Hezbollah's pedigree, here are but some of their games.

[i]Accusations of terrorism, bomb attacks and kidnappings

[i]Hezbollah is accused of being responsible for a number of attacks and kidnappings carried out since its founding in the early 1980s.[85][86][87] These include:

* April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing[88]
* 1983 Beirut barracks bombing,[85][87][88]
* kidnappings of Western, especially American, targets in the 80s,[87] mostly alleged by the US, Israel, and Canada, while others allege that other groups were responsible
* the hijacking of TWA Flight 847 in 1985[85] by a group with alleged links to Hezbollah
* Between 1982 to 1986, 41 Hezbollah suicide attackers killed 659 people, including 241 US Marines as they slept.[89] In the American Conservative Robert Pape details 38 of the bombers as 8 Muslim, 27 Communists/Socialists and 3 Christian.[90]
* the 1992 Israeli Embassy attack in Buenos Aires, Argentina.[85][87]
* the 1994 AMIA bombing of a Jewish cultural centre, also in Argentina.[85]
* the January 15, 2008, bombing of a U.S. Embassy vehicle in Beirut.

These accusations are denied by Hezbollah.[91][92][93] According to Nasrallah, Hezbollah refused any participation in operations outside Lebanese and Israeli lands before 2008.[94]

Conflict with Israel

Hezbollah has been involved in several cases of armed conflict with Israel:

* During the 1982–2000 South Lebanon conflict, Hezbollah waged a guerrilla campaign against Israeli forces occupying Southern Lebanon. It ended with Israeli withdrawal in accordance with 1978's United Nations Security Council Resolution 425.[95] With the collapse of their supposed allies, the SLA, and the rapid advance of Hezbollah forces, they withdrew suddenly on May 24, 2000 six weeks before the announced 7 July."[23] Hezbollah held a victory parade, and its popularity in Lebanon rose.[96]
* On July 25, 1993, following the killing of seven Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon, Israel launched Operation Accountability (known in Lebanon as the Seven Day War), during which the IDF carried out their heaviest artillery and air attacks on targets in southern Lebanon since 1982. The declared aim of the operation was to eradicate the threat posed by Hezbollah and to force the civilian population north to Beirut so as to put pressure on the Lebanese Government to repress Hezbollah. The fighting ended when an unwritten understanding was agreed to by the warring parties. Apparently, the 1993 understanding provided that Hezbollah combatants would not fire rockets at northern Israel, while Israel would not attack civilians or civilian targets in Lebanon.[97]
* In April 1996, the Israeli armed forces launched Operation Grapes of Wrath, which was intended to wipe out Hezbollah's base in southern Lebanon. International condemnation greeted the massacre on 18 April 1996 of over 100 Lebanese refugees in a UN base at Qana, in what the Israeli military said was a mistake.[98] Finally, following several days of negotiations, the two sides signed the Grapes of Wrath Understandings on April 26, 1996. A cease-fire was agreed upon between Israel and Hezbollah, which would be effective on April 27, 1996. Both sides agreed that civilians should not be targeted, which meant that Hezbollah would be allowed to continue its military activities against IDF forces inside Lebanon.[44][99]
* In 2000, Hezbollah attacked 3 Israeli soldiers possibly injuring or killing them and went on to abduct them.[100]Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz has however claimed that Hezbollah abducted the soldiers, and then killed them.[101][102] The bodies of the slain soldiers were exchanged for Lebanese prisoners in 2004.[103]
* Hezbollah's desire for Israeli prisoners that could be exchanged with Israel led to Hezbollah's abduction of Israeli soldiers, which triggered the 2006 Lebanon War.[104]
* The 2006 Lebanon War was a 34-day military conflict in Lebanon and northern Israel. The principal parties were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on July 12, 2006, and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on August 14, 2006. Hezbollah was responsible for thousands of Katyusha rocket attacks against Israeli civilian towns and cities in northern Israel,[86] in which Hezbollah said those attacks were retaliation for Israel's killing of civilians and targeting the Lebanese infrastructure.[105] The conflict began when Hezbollah militants fired rockets at Israeli border towns as a diversion for an anti-tank missile attack on two armored Humvees patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence, killing three, injuring two, and seizing two Israeli soldiers.[106] According to The Guardian, "In the fighting 1,200 Lebanese and 158 Israelis were killed. Of the dead almost 1,000 Lebanese and 41 Israelis were civilians."[107][/i][/i]

gray Wrote:There had been Hezbollah "technicals" in the area but I guess IDF tank optics couldn't tell the difference between them and an Audi sedan   . . . . .

Ever been in that situation there Gray.......?

Seems to me if you have, you wouldn't be making these comments.

Some that I know that have been usually just say something like....."damn, it happens".

They never fault anyone......because they know.


These battlefields consist of 21 year olds manning some of the most dangerous weapons mankind has to offer. They are scared, gunfire all around, there is confusion, 15 different voices going off in the headset telling them what to do, not to mention their own gut telling them. Split second decisions have to be made...some that can have not only life altering ramifications, but world altering as well, with no chance of having 20/20 hindsight to fall back on.

But of course, sitting in your easy chair typing own your keyboard, after the fact, allows you to be an expert on how "you would have done it".


AK

Hezbollah are bad guys and they do terrorist actions and they break the Geneva Conventions in more  "conventional" conflicts. No argument there. They also as far as I can tell avoid targeting 3rd parties, observer whatever in those more conventional conflicts.  The IDF is  an national army which is why I hold it to a higher standard.

I've not been on an operation  but I was a trained  FO and FAC for a number of years so I appreciate matters of target ID.

The IDF has broken more of their fair share of Geneva Conventions. Israel as a nation has been condemned and criticized by the UN on countless occasions.

Hezbollah and Israel are at war. Hezbollah is an extremely frustrating enemy who has little regard for civilians. They are extremely well trained and well armed as they showed during the last Israeli war.

Israel is a country that bulldozes Palestinian homes to build Israeli settlements and has kept operating refugee camps for displaced Palestinians for decades.

There are no innocent parties in that conflict. Only sides to take.

Hey, you are in the line of fire in a war...that's is your choice. You could be filming the Panda's have sex at the National Zoo in DC and through the years I have lived here I assure you NOTHING ever happens there. If you jump out of airplanes, which I did, I knew the chances of biting were far greater than if I were pushing paper in the pentagon, but I volunteered for the danger and I would not blame anyone but myself. If morons like us can quickly research that Israel does not play soldier in their war zones than as a journalist you sure as heck should be aware that if you are in an Israeli hot zone trying to get "the shot" then the shot just might find you.

Shana - may he RIP (Rest in Pieces)